Philip Guay with Brian Gunter and Rusty Reed

(upbeat music)

- Greetings and welcome to the Here We Stand

podcast.

We're coming to you from God's country here

in central Louisiana on the corner of Hooper

and Love It Road at Providence Baptist Church.

And I'm joined today by Shows producer,

co-elder, Roger Dale Peters, who makes all of

this work.

And our special guest today are Pastor Rusty

Reed

and also Pastor Brian Gunter.

Thank you guys for coming today and joining

with us.

I've tried to get Pastor Larry Hubbard to come

and to do the biographical podcast with me.

And I was working really hard on him to get

him,

but all that could get out of Brother Larry

was look.

If you buy me lunch, I'll tell you everything

you wanna know.

And that was as far as I could get with him.

So I said, okay, I give.

And so I wanted to get you guys in here today.

And I'd like to start today just with the

ministry report

from how your ministries are going.

Rusty, I'd like to start with you.

I know you got some exciting news

to tell us about Reformation.

- Yeah, we do.

The Lord was faithful as he always is.

And we were able to secure financing for our

building

and should be starting within the month.

Hopefully finish this year.

We're looking to try to celebrate Christmas,

2026 in the new building.

But Easter 2026 will work as well.

But we're trying.

- So there won't be a slab to do Christmas on

the slab

because you're being middle of construction

at that point, right?

- That's right.

Yeah, we hope to start construction by the end

of the month.

- Awesome, awesome, that is great news.

I'm excited about it

'cause I live literally about 45 seconds

around the corner.

So I'm gonna be able to watch as this thing

comes up.

It's very, very exciting.

And really the answer to a lot of prayers,

right?

- Really is, and a lot of work.

And our finance team was really remarkable.

They did a great job putting together

all the facts and figures for the bank.

And we were able to make it work.

- Yeah, that's definitely hard work.

Well, thank God for that.

After all the, really the trauma of watching

that,

that you and I together standing out in front

of that building that was burning.

But to see this come about is really God's

blessing.

- It really is.

- His hand in blessing.

Brian, how about you?

What's been going on, man?

I think a few things have been going on

in Brian Gunner's life here lately.

- A lot has been going on.

Yeah, so I'm actually preaching now

at Salem Baptist Church just north of the town

of Walker.

Those who know me know that I was at First

Baptist Church

of Livingston for the past three and a half

years.

I recently had to step down as pastor

for the sake of that church.

I don't wanna go too much into the details of

why that was,

but largely much of the issues that I had

was concerning the doctrines of grace

and reform theology and disagreements

among church leadership about that.

I think there's, as in all situations

where pastors and churches have to go separate

ways.

I think there's always many other reasons

that I won't go into.

But largely, you know, I'm a pastor who deeply

believes

that the Bible teaches that God is sovereign

in salvation.

I always have taught that for the past 20

years

of pastoral ministry and just deeply convicted

of that.

And the reality is, is that these truths

are very controversial in our day.

- Absolutely.

- When we think of the fact that salvation is

all of God

and not of man, that is something

that often separates congregations.

And frankly, the doctrines of grace are very

humbling

and very challenging for people to accept.

And that was a big part of why I had to move

to Salem.

And so I'm preaching there now,

being considered to be their pastor

so that that could possibly come in the future

.

But those things have to be considered prayer

fully

and carefully both among myself and my family

as well as the church at Salem.

And there's about 135 former members

of First Baptist Livingston who also feel

that they could not stay at First Livingston

largely due to opposition to the doctrines of

grace.

And it was just a very difficult, sad

situation

where a little more than half of the church

was no longer welcome.

And so we had to find another place to worship

.

And it's very difficult, sad situation,

but God is bringing blessing through it.

And the Lord is doing some incredible things.

And to tell you a little bit about Salem

Baptist Church.

- Yeah, absolutely.

- Which I know is near and dear to Brother

Philip's heart.

- It is indeed.

- For the past few years, when I talked to

Philip,

I mostly heard about Salem Baptist Church

more than Providence, the very church he

pastors

or any other because, and a lot of it was,

and I know Philip shares a love of history

with me.

Salem Baptist Church is just a historic church

founded in the year 1854,

just north of the town of Walker, Louisiana,

in just an incredible church with an

incredible history.

And one of the pastors who's preached

at the Here We Stand conference before,

Brother Chad Chauvan was pastor there for the

past two years.

And he was bivocational and no longer able to

serve

as pastor of that church because of the

responsibilities

of his other job.

And so he had to step down as pastor recently.

And as my time at Livingston came to an end

and I was thinking about where the Lord would

have me.

Brother Philip had been my goodness for the

past few months

asking me to get men to fill the pulpit at

Salem.

And so we had sent some men who are candidates

to later be ordained as pastors from our

fellowship.

I had sent some men, Richard Davis and Brandon

Stafford

to go and fill the pulpit and preach there on

Sundays

and had plans to send some other men

that I'm mentoring and deciphering.

- I had to scratch them off my calendar.

- Yeah, and so, yeah, so we were talking

about how we were gonna get some of those

other men there.

I think we were telling Luke that, weren't we?

- Yeah, yeah.

- And you were gonna get Luke.

- Luke was next man up.

- Yeah, he's only an 18 year old young man.

He was gonna go and preach and Luke Claimaw.

And instead, I ended up being the one

filling the pulpit here in the month of

October.

So it has indeed been a very busy few months

and no doubt painful things I would not have

chosen,

but God is good and he is gracious

and he is bringing much beauty from all this.

And I will say that the Lord has brought

myself,

my wife, my children, and those in our

fellowship

who are looking to join at Salem

has brought us all much closer to the Lord

as a result of these trials.

And so I'm thankful for that.

And so I don't want to share any details

that I should not share publicly

out of consideration for the saints

at First Baptist Livingston.

But needless to say, it was a very difficult,

very painful,

very sinful division that took place.

And we felt that we had no choice

but to go and worship elsewhere.

And God is indeed bringing much blessing

and much beauty from that.

And I'm more committed to the doctrines of

grace than ever

because at the end of the day,

whatever the word of God says is what we must

believe

and what pastors must preach and teach.

And the last sermon I preached from the pulpit

at First Livingston was from Acts chapter 20

where the apostle Paul looked at the Ephesian

elders

and said, I am innocent of the blood of all of

you,

for I have not neglected to proclaim to you

the whole counsel of God.

And that is what I have sought to do in my

ministry.

And even when that is not fully appreciated

or even welcome, the reality is, brothers, as

you know,

we must proclaim the whole counsel of God,

regardless of the cost.

And whether it's in season or out of season,

and that's what I've sought to do.

And that's really why I'm at Salem

and I'll say one more thing.

I think the name of the church is providential

.

Brother Phillip, because as we know,

Salem comes from the Hebrew word shalom and it

means peace.

And that's what we're seeking,

a place of peace where we can worship Christ

who is our peace and serve him together.

And so I just welcome anyone who doesn't have

a home church

to come and worship with us at Salem Baptist

Church

Sundays, 10 a.m. Sunday school worship at 11

and evening worship at 6 p.m.

- Amen.

And my favorite theological word, of course,

is providence.

- Amen.

Like a good Baptist.

- Exactly.

And I see nothing but the hand of providence

because it was really pretty remarkable.

And, Rusty, it speaks to this relationship of

churches

that we have with the Here We Stand conference

when I found out about the need for pulpit

supply.

It was on a weekend.

And by Monday, when I first found out about it

,

noon, by Monday, we had 11 preachers lined up

wanting to do pulpit supply.

Not just from your church, your guys,

but other guys as well who were saying,

"Yeah, we'll stand in the gap and do whatever

is necessary."

Because it was really important to me,

I could not fathom a 171 year old church just

going down.

We wanted to hold that together.

And so what's fascinating to me

is the fact that three of the guys

that we lined up just needing to fill that

slot

wind up coming with you.

And I could have never imagined when we were

doing that

that there was one day soon in time

be you being the supply preacher

with 135 other people.

So providential is certainly when we look back

at how it all is.

And painful as I know it was, there is

blessing.

- Amen.

And Salem has a whole lot more people

worshiping there on the Lord's Day

than has in many years.

And it is a beautiful thing.

I'll just say one more thing.

And that is, we love to sing.

- I can testify that firsthand the first,

maybe Sunday night, Christy and I went out

there.

And so now, and in the room is like not any

bigger

than this one. - I was wondering

how big it was.

- And it's just as many people as you can pack

in there.

And so now Christy's twisting my arm every

Sunday.

Now, hey, let's go back out there to Brian

to just experience that singing in that small

room

with that many people.

Fantastic. - Yeah.

- And Salem has 22 members currently.

And we brought about 135 with us.

And so we have a congregation that loves to

worship

and serve the Lord.

And I got to tell you, it is the highlight of

my week,

not only to preach the word of God, that

always has been.

But now just as much I look forward to singing

with the saints at Salem, it has been

incredible.

If you get the chance to come and worship with

us,

especially maybe a Sunday evening service

or a Wednesday evening, if you don't have

worship

at your home church, it is such a blessing.

I'm just thankful for what the Lord's doing.

- And the great possibility of knocking out

some walls,

probably.

- There's gonna need to be something done.

- Something's gonna have to happen.

- Because we barely fit, but God will provide.

- He will.

- And wherever he guides, he provides.

And I have learned in 20 years ministry,

trust the Lord with all your heart,

do not lean on your own understanding.

And all your ways acknowledge him

and he will make straight your paths.

That's exactly what I've seen.

And I know that God has a bright future for us

and for Salem.

And so I'm just thankful for that.

- Amen.

Well, I've had Rusty and Brian on before.

And as a matter of fact, while I'm thinking

about it,

you can go to the Here We Stand Conference

Facebook page.

And you can see a lot of our former sermons

from different conferences that we've had.

This is actually our fifth conference coming

up this year.

We started in 2021.

Other podcast episodes are there at that

Facebook page.

But I also wanna talk about just a little bit

something

that's happening here in our building at Prov

idence

that started with Reformation Church men's

meeting.

And this thing has grown organically

into usually four to five churches are

represented

with men.

Last night we had 32 men and Bobby Green came

and brought the hammer and brought the fire.

And I learned something new, BTA.

I'm gonna put that into my, about that action.

I'm gonna put that into my lexicon now of

things to say.

And Bobby definitely put the BTA on us, you

and I.

- Both have a lot of upgrades to make.

- Yes, we do.

I had never heard that before.

Apparently it's pretty popular.

- I gotta tell you, when I prayed for the Lord

to send me another man to shepherd the church

of God

with me and to pastor with me.

I am very blessed to have Bobby Green.

He is quite the servant of the Lord

and love him and his wife, Jordan.

They're such a blessing, great fellowship.

And the young man can preach.

- He can, great pulpit presence, great deep

voice,

really confident.

And I look forward to hearing Bobby again.

So we're doing that men.

If you ever wanna come to one of our meetings,

we post it on all our socials.

And it's usually the third Friday in the month

,

but sometimes it's not.

So be on the lookout for that.

But not having to do these biographical

podcasts anymore

with Brian and Rusty.

Now we can really start to talk about some

topics.

And one of the topics I wanna bring up today,

and we're gonna get to the conference

on the backend of this podcast,

is something that just was really the most

incredible thing

I've ever seen in politics.

And that was the Charlie Kirk Memorial Service

.

I was, I'm still stunned by what I saw.

And it was actually that day that that evening

was the first evening we were coming out to

Salem,

me and Christy, and I was just transfixed.

I'm seeing the top cabinet people

from the Secretary of State, Vice President on

down,

one after another, and every one of them

declaring the kingship of Christ

and literally gospel, I mean, Frank Turrick,

substitutionary atonement. - It was.

- Even Marco Rubio, and you had different

stripes

of professing Christianity at this thing,

but there was nothing really unorthodox

that was said, Marco Rubio, Secretary of State

, Catholic,

but talking about how God became a man

in the person of Jesus Christ

and died on the crossroads and rising on the

third day.

I mean, it was just, I was stunned

and I never saw anything like it.

And so then the aftermath of this

has been a great swell of interest.

As a matter of fact, I wrote some of these

statistics down.

Fox News had reported last week,

and this is actually since 2019 and '22,

but you can even go more than this right now.

Since '22, there's been a 41.6% increase in

Bible sales.

Since 2019, 79.5% increase

religion and spirituality downloads.

And of course that covers just anything, but

still.

And then, since 2019, a 50% increase

in contemporary Christian music on Spotify

streams.

So I don't get too excited about contemporary

Christian music,

but it shows you a direction.

- Well, it beats Cardi B.

- Yeah, it definitely means Cardi B.

There's no questions.

There's no question about that.

And so we're seeing it.

And I've even had two people come to our

church

as a result of being affected by Charlie Kirk

and everything that happened and then looking

in.

And I knew a little bit about Charlie Kirk.

I looked to a lot of clips,

but I didn't realize how gospel centered that

he was.

And so as I began to look to the clips,

yeah, like everybody else, it was like, wow,

man, this dude was really bringing the gospel

and also combining it with a biblical

worldview

in the world of politics.

And he's hitting these kids straight on, on

these campuses.

And so we're seeing this swell.

And then Apology, a podcast with Jeff Durbin

and Luke,

they were there.

I posted it on our Facebook page

and they gave a really great review of what

happened.

And it was, it was sound.

It was good and all the good aspects of it.

But then our guy, Dr. White,

about three or four days later,

he comes out with a podcast and he begins to

say,

hey, wait a minute, this is great.

And he said all the things that were great,

but we need to beware doctrinally

about the ecumenism that is taking place

that we're starting to see.

Eric Metax is wanting to bring back ECT

and these different things.

And so--

- Tell us what ECT is.

- ECT was back in the 90s.

Evangelicals and Catholics together.

Dr. Sproul, if you ever want to look up on "L

ickin' Ear,"

he tells a great story about that.

John MacArthur tells a great story about that

where they all got in this room.

And of course, for Dr. Sproul,

the issue was justification by faith alone.

And it comes down to that.

It comes down to "Sola Fide"

and they refused to sign that document over

that issue.

And so Eric Metax is just as an example

that Dr. White used was like,

hey, since we were seeing all these good

things,

why can't we all come together?

And there is a sense in which there can be

a co-belligerency like, Brian,

when you do things on the abortion front

with those who we may not agree with

on the very cardinal doctrine of the Christian

faith,

"Sola Fide," and we can do things together

in the public square.

But we have to be very careful

about making these doctrinal distinctions.

And so what I want to talk about a little bit

is the response that we should have,

because this is like,

Roger and I were talking earlier,

it's always a wave,

and then this wave is going to die down, right

?

And so while we're in the middle of this wave,

we as Bible-believing Christians,

how do we make the best use

of all of these people's renewed interest in

Christianity?

And I'm afraid that if we're not careful,

a lot of people can fall into places

where they're not getting the true gospel.

And so I feel like it's kind of up to us.

And let me start with this, I'll give you an

example.

And I'm gonna start with you first, Rusty.

I was asked to go out to one of these Charlie

Kurt memorials,

and I had to stand on stage with those

of different belief systems.

And there I was, and I'm like,

I'm uncomfortable, I'm validating,

but at the same time,

here's my shot to preach the gospel.

So when I got my eight minutes,

I just went hard gospel,

like Doug Wilson, White Hot Gospel.

And so I think it's,

if we get ourselves into those spaces,

we need to be discerning,

but we also need to make sure

that we're bringing the gospel.

That is our number one most important reality,

whether we're one-on-one with people,

or whether we find ourselves in these public

spaces

where we get our opportunity,

it's one shot to give the biblical gospel.

Rusty, what are your thoughts on that?

- Well, it's interesting that you brought up

Dr. White,

who's all about dividing lines.

That's the name of his show.

And we should take advantage

of the current times when these things get

exposed.

Charlie Kirk was exposing dividing lines

between right and left,

between reason and complete lunacy.

And it opens up a door for us to step in

and say, you know, the gospel is reasonable,

but we're also uncomfortable with dividing

lines.

As Dr. White was saying,

we would like for, there tends to be a push in

our society,

even in Christian society, to close these

dividing lines,

but there are some dividing lines that are

necessary,

and always will be necessary.

And so we don't, we should take advantage, I

think,

when the opportunity is given,

like it was given to you to preach the gospel,

it's been done for me and for Brian

and for people all over the place, I'm sure.

Dr. MacArthur took advantage of that

opportunity

on Larry King Live, you know.

- Often.

- Oftentimes, and never failed.

You know, he always came, rose up to the

occasion

and refused to close those dividing lines.

Larry King would seemingly be begging for him

to close those up, and he wouldn't do it

because right is right and wrong is wrong.

And in the end, I think he earned Larry King's

respect.

- Oh, he did, yeah.

- And the gospel was presented in clarity.

I remember you were talking about Dr. Sproul

with ECT,

and I can't remember who it was.

I don't remember if it was Don Carson

or who it was, a respectable theologian.

- It's J.I. Packer, I think.

- It was Packer, that's who it was.

- Which was surprising.

- And stunned R.C.

- It did.

- That Packer went to the other side there.

And I think it's the same thing.

There is this desire to close ranks

and say, hey, let's put our arms around each

other.

And we think that something will be beneficial

will come out of that, but I think in the long

run,

what happens when you do that is the gospel

loses clarity

and you fall back instead of moving forward.

So I think we need to take advantage of these

things,

move forward, put our arms around people

and say, yes, we agree.

LGBTQ is insane and all this other stuff,

but we need to make sure

that we give a clear gospel presentation.

- Absolutely, I even feel like in the reform

world,

we get under that bigger and bigger tent

that the reform world has become in the past

10 years.

We tend to not want to get outside our walls

too much

and get into that uncomfortable space.

So it requires diligence and discernment

to not only have the comfort level

to just kind of branch out outside of our tent

,

but while we're out there, be strong with the

gospel.

Brian, what are your thoughts on that?

- You know, I have done a lot of work in the

public sphere

where the law of God meets public policy

and specifically as it has to do

with the sanctity of human life

and the issue of the murder of the pre-born

by abortion in this land and across this world

.

So as I think through the issue,

and I think over many years of advocating

for changes in law in Louisiana as well as

other states,

I understand the concept of co-beligerancy

and think it is very valuable

because if you take something like the issue

of abolishing abortion, so the abolition of

abortion,

I would define that as saying

that the abolition of abortion is the biblical

position

on abortion, which states that life begins

at the moment of conception

and should only end by natural death

and that life should be equally protected at

all points

between when it begins at conception

and when it should end at natural death

and that we should treat all human beings

equally.

Now, most people who call themselves per life

would agree when I say that,

but when I say that life should be equally

protected,

I mean, it should not be legal for anyone

to murder another person.

And the reality is, is that right now

in all 50 states of the United States of

America,

it is legal for a mother

to murder her pre-born child by abortion.

Some might say, oh, abortion is not legal

in this state or that state.

Oh, contrary, abortion is legal

in all 50 states for the mother.

Now, it might not be legal to operate

an abortion facility, a clinic, as it's often

called,

an abortion mill in the state of Louisiana

and some other states,

but it is perfectly legal for mothers

to get the abortion pill by mail

and to take that abortion pill to murder their

child

and to flush that child down the toilet

in the comfort and convenience of their own

home.

That is very legal in all 50 states and it is

ongoing.

And the reality is, is we have more abortion

in states like Louisiana now,

after the abortion clinics have been closed

down,

than we did several years ago

prior to Wade being overturned in 2022, three

years ago.

And so, as I think of this concept of co-bell

igerancy,

the question would be on God's law,

I might say to a Roman Catholic or even a

Muslim,

I might say, do you agree with me

that it should not be legal for anyone

to murder another person from the moment

when life begins at conception,

which scientifically is called the moment of

fertilization

when the sperm and the egg meet and the child

begins to grow,

from the moment of fertilization,

which is conception, biblically speaking,

until the moment of natural death

should all life be equally protected

in abortion thereby abolish.

Now, abolish means legally prohibited by law.

I know we can't stop all abortion,

just like we can't stop all bank robberies and

murders,

but that doesn't mean that bank robbery

and murder should be legal.

It should be illegal and we should do

everything we can

to prevent it and prohibit it by law

and we should punish it severely.

And so the question is,

do you believe that abortion is the murder of

a human being?

If the answer is yes,

then the only consistent answer is abolition.

And I am glad to work with Roman Catholics

toward passing a law to abolish abortion,

although not all Roman Catholics are gonna

seek that,

just like not all evangelicals are gonna seek

that.

The reality is, is there is a divide

that cuts across denominational and religious

lines

as it concerns abortion here.

But if a Roman Catholic priest wants to go to

the legislature

and testify alongside me, after me, before me

on a bill

that would abolish abortion

by granting equal protection to children in

the womb,

then I'll be thrilled to have that Catholic

priest support.

But what I'm not gonna do is pretend

like we believe the same things

concerning the gospel and salvation.

And I just wanna say this,

I don't think it's very respectful of Roman

Catholics

or other faiths to pretend like they believe

what I believe and teach

when clearly our beliefs are different.

I don't understand how that is respectful.

It seems to me like I would be minimizing

and dismissing what Roman Catholics believe

if we wanna use them as an example

here on the issue of abortion.

I think I ought to have enough respect

for my Roman Catholic friends and neighbors

to be honest with them about where my beliefs

differ from their own and they for me.

And I don't see why that should be seen as

disrespectful.

I think it's very respectful to honestly

and sincerely address the differences between

our faiths.

- Absolutely, and this is one of the hardest

things

for me, having been raised Roman Catholic,

I got into it today on Twitter with Todd Erzen

and so did Dr. White.

And there was a little back and forth that we

had.

And my thing is this, I don't wanna get into

it.

I don't wanna have a fight.

I don't think it's an attack for me

to take out the catechism that I have right

behind me

and say, okay, this is what Rome, for example,

is teaching that how a simple man gets right

where the holy God goes ahead and when he dies

.

This is the plan of salvation according to

Rome.

This is what it is.

It's laid out, it's been there for centuries.

Council a trend on that they still hold to.

And so by just saying that

and then by just comparing that with the

biblical gospel,

I don't consider that an attack.

I just consider it comparing these two

understandings

of how we get right with God.

But it's so very difficult, I find, especially

,

and the most place I do that is on Twitter,

is to have that kind of just a relaxed

conversation

without all the hostility of your attacking me

.

And I'm constantly trying to find ways of,

hey, how can we sit down and just say,

hey, there's a clear difference here.

And at the same time, yeah, we can do things

together

if we go to the legislature on things that are

moral evil,

whether it be abortion or transgenderism

or any of the evils of our day.

So I think that's a space that we have to

learn

how to really be discerning as to how do we

get that done?

How do we get that across?

What do you think about that, Russell?

- As a confessional Baptist,

I'm perfectly happy for a Roman Catholic or

anybody else

to pick up a copy of the 1689 second London

Baptist

Confession of Faith and say,

is this representative of what you believe?

And yes, and I'll defend that.

And if you wanna debate that, we can do that.

I would think that Roman Catholics would be

the same way

that they would say,

this is what we have historically held to,

this is what we believe.

And we can have,

I don't know if they would be productive

conversations,

but at least they would be conversations

that were meaningful.

- That's the usefulness of the confession.

- Yes, exactly right.

And that's the usefulness of confession.

They have the same thing in their confession,

I mean, in their catechism and all of that.

Brian asked a good question.

Why would they wanna be,

it's not only disrespectful for me to treat

them

like they don't have a 1200 years of history,

it's disrespectful to their forebears for them

to do that.

But I don't understand that.

- Yeah, and it just requires for us to prayer

fully consider

if we get into these spaces,

how we're to go about doing that.

But one thing is for certain,

like I'm working right now on a possible deal

on LSU's campus with TPUSA.

And what I would like to do is bring together

pastors

and politicians to have an event on campus

that says,

hey, TPUSA, we in the local community of local

pastors

and local politicians, we have your back.

And we want LSU's TPUSA organization to thrive

on campus.

So like, if we get to go to that event

and we get our chance to get to the mic,

we're gonna say a few words about TP,

but buddy, we better be ready to let it fly.

- Yeah, is that the one that Ali Beth is,

or did she already do that?

- She's having one in October the 27th at the

Central Plex.

But I'm talking about a later event

where it's just local people instead of those

guys.

'Cause we do want to keep that momentum going.

I do want to see people that really have

bought into

the transgender madness and all the rest.

I really do want to see them continually be

confronted

and not in a bad way, but the way that Charlie

did it.

And that was what was so crazy about

everything.

I mean, here you had this guy who in the most

reasonable way

possible would engage and they killed him.

- Well, that's the thing, you know, you think

of Charlie Kirk

or if you want to go the other way, you can

take Doug Wilson.

These are, at the very least, these are great

examples

to all of us in Christianity of how to speak

and how to not be lazy in our study

and how to speak in a passionate but non-

violent way

get to point across.

They just did a good job.

That was where I was exposed to Charlie Kirk.

I'm like you, I really wasn't really a part

of the turning point ministry or anything.

I didn't follow that.

Where I interacted with Charlie Kirk, you know

,

right or wrong was when his videos would pop

up on my feed,

you know, and I would think, well, this is

impressive,

you know, and even maybe sometimes helpful,

you know,

to help me in a kind of whenever I was

engaging

in the public.

So we need that, that's good.

- Yeah, we do.

And learning how to do that in the way that

they,

and Doug too, like on CNN, he is really great

at that.

With that latest interview, and there's one I

want to watch

where he got an interview with a New York

Times guy.

And the guy got some really challenging

questions

about Calvinism in particular.

And I hadn't got a chance to see that,

but it's the way we go about engaging.

And I really want to, Bobby talked about it

last night

in his message about discipleship.

And so to me, the really right now in this era

of time

that we're in, considering all that we've

talked about,

really getting our, especially our young men,

to have such a thorough understanding of the

gospel,

that if you wake them up at two o'clock in the

morning

and say, give me the gospel right now,

they can just spit it out.

I mean, it's just all the components of the

gospel

that you can have that type of gospel

conversation,

where it's not just, you know,

let me give you these four points and wrote,

man, we can talk about it in such a way

that they don't feel like we're disarming them

or we're being antagonistic toward them.

But that, the way that Charlie Kirk exempled

it.

And so what we're looking at for our

conference coming up,

I don't think it could be a better time

to have a conference on the name of our

conference this year

is our sovereign God.

And we have certainly seen in 2025,

when we, I love last night's verses

that Bobby quoted about soldiers, being good

soldiers.

And we lost two generals this year in 2025

and John MacArthur, which we kind of knew he

was coming.

But Vody still is in a complete, it's a shock.

- Absolutely. - And of course,

we know it was exactly in the sovereignty of

God,

the timing, exactly when God decreed that that

would happen.

But it's still nonetheless, we're down here

in responsibility land and it's still a shock

for us.

But it really, to me, it says, okay,

where do we go from here?

We've lost several guys, some not only to

death,

but to failure in ministry.

We've lost some really heavy hitters in this

year

and in recent years.

And then you go back to Dr. Sproul.

Rusty, I think about just in the last five

years,

personal guys, Brother Huey Moke at Lacey,

David Miller.

There's just been a lot of them strung along.

And so to me, it's now, where do we go from

here?

Who carries the torch?

Well, nobody can take the place of a Vodybacom

.

There's nobody that can take the place of a

John MacArthur,

or Charlie Kirk for that matter.

I've never seen anybody argue like that on a

campus.

- But I would just say, remember that it was

God

who raised up Vodybacom and John MacArthur

and it's God who raises up leaders in the

future.

And so I do trust that the Lord will have men

to lead our churches faithfully.

And I don't see why the future can't be even

brighter

than the past, you know, brighter than the

past.

The reality is, is I see a crop of young

pastors

and teachers who are more committed than ever.

And I'll just say generationally,

it seems like in my parents and grandparents

generation

that America was largely lulled asleep

spiritually speaking.

It was almost like in the '50s and '60s,

there was this assumption that we were somehow

more godly

than the rest of the world or something like

that.

And the truth is, is a lot of complacency cre

pt in,

in recent decades in America.

And I think what's happened after COVID

and the digital revolution is that

this has all been pulled back.

And we see now that we can speak of America

being a Christian nation and its founding.

Certainly the founders of this nation were men

who largely believed the word of God

and followed its teachings.

I mean, I'm not saying that every founder was,

you know,

a card-carrying, born-again Christian,

but nonetheless, there was a biblical

worldview.

- A lot of them were, yeah.

- A lot of them were.

And those who were not, like Thomas Jefferson

and others,

they certainly had imbibed a biblical

worldview

that informed the way they saw civil law

and how government should function

and where rights come from that they come from

God

and not government and things like that.

And so, you know, when I look throughout

American history

and I look at our founding in this nation,

what I realize is that whatever our founding

was

in the last 100 years or less,

we have gotten so far away from a biblical

worldview

that I feel like 2020 was a year when America

woke up

and realized we're not a Christian nation,

not even close.

I mean, just look at what is commonly believed

by the people in this nation.

Whatever a Christian nation should be,

it should be characterized by people,

a populace, who are genuinely,

generally Christian in their worldview.

And that's not the culture we live in, not

even close.

And it is the job of pastors and preachers

and the local church to go out

and proclaim a biblical worldview.

And you know, I'm gonna be preaching on the

issue

of if God is sovereign, why vote?

I wanna say something about this,

that I believe pastors have more of a critical

role

in this than politicians.

And we flipped that.

We, Bobby quoted Spurgeon last night in his

sermon,

calling men to step up and to disciple other

men

and men and to lead in these issues.

And Spurgeon once said something along the

lines of,

"If God has called you to be a preacher,

why stoop to be a king?"

And Spurgeon's point was,

is that the call to pastoral ministry

is a higher calling than to be a president

or a prime minister.

- I believe that firmly.

- Now, many people might think that's absurd,

but I believe it.

I believe that the prophet Nathan, in many

ways,

had a more critical role than King David.

- Absolutely.

- And the reality is, is that we need men to

stand up

and boldly proclaim the truth in this

generation.

So I'll just say, Philip, I think,

I don't know who they will be,

but I believe God has leaders for the church

in coming days that we're gonna hopefully get

to see

in our lifetime, who will be just as excellent

or even better than men like Vodibacum and

John Macaulay.

And I'm so thankful for the revival

and really the reformation that I'm watching

in young men in their teens and 20s and 30s

right now.

- Well, you're kind of reading my mail of

where I was headed

and where I was headed with that is,

with them gone now to carry the torch on,

it's up to us as local pastors to lead

and bringing that younger generation

out of which may come a Vodibacum, John Macaul

ay Arthur,

and for us to carry the torch of the gospel

and to also piggyback on what you're saying,

part of the problem that I see that has

happened

over since really the '60s

and the sexual revolution in the '60s,

I think you can dial it back really to

pinpoint that,

is that the church stepped back from the

public square.

The church believed in that myth of neutrality

.

We're gonna stay back and we're gonna stay

inside the church.

We're not gonna get involved out there in the

public square

and the results have been plain to see.

And so when people say to me,

"Well, Pastor, you need to stay in your lane

"and just preach, you don't need to get

involved

"in politics."

I said, "Wait a minute, number one, I have to

live here."

Number two, I've got five grandchildren

that I don't want to grow up in a totalitarian

society

because at the end of the day,

what we see underlying the left is Marxism.

That's what it is.

I mean, that's not hyperbolic to say in any

way.

And I think it's that pastors need to lead the

way

like you were just saying in the public square

,

but what it is that we bring to the table is

the gospel

because that's the only thing that can change

hearts

from somebody who's antifa over into being a

regenerate

Christian is our gospel message.

And I agree with you,

I tell my folks at Providence all the time,

and I firmly believe this,

that my vocation as a pastor, even being bivoc

ational,

even in this very small church,

the work that I do that you guys do is more

significant,

more important than any president, prime

minister,

or king, why?

Because it is what we are doing

is of the highest eternal value.

Every Sunday, large day in and out,

we're behind those pulpits and we're opening

word of God

and preaching to the people of God

and discipling the saints

and doing the work of the ministry.

When it comes time for judgment day,

is it gonna matter when the presidents are

bending their knee

what their legislation was,

but is it gonna matter who we discipled as

saints?

It will carry on for all eternity and that's

our role.

And so as we look forward to this conference,

our sovereign God, the way we came up with

designing

these messages are answers to common questions

that people have about sovereignty and

responsibility.

So we're gonna have Mark LaCour from Grace

Bible Fellowship.

He's gonna start the conference

and kind of lay the foundation with how

sovereign is God.

And then Larry Hubbard from Riverside Baptist

is gonna come back with,

if God is sovereign over all things,

why do we need to pray if he's to create all

things

whatsoever before the foundation of the world?

Then Rusty, you're gonna come with a message

on if God is sovereign, why press on in the

Christian life?

Why endure to the end?

And then as you said, Brian,

why vote?

What's the point?

If God sets all the leaders in place

and he's sovereign over that, why vote?

And then Rusty Grant is gonna finish up

from his church, Grace Covenant Baptist,

I believe his name is Church?

Yeah, and why evangelize?

Why tell?

If God's to create all who's gonna be saved,

why do we need to spread the gospel?

And so I think those are very important

and good questions that people need to wrestle

with,

especially if they're wrestling even now

with the doctrine of the sovereignty of God.

And we would love to have you come out.

Let me give you the dates for our conference.

It's gonna be Friday, October the 24th.

That's gonna start at 6 30 in the evening

at Riverside Baptist in Watson.

And then Saturday morning,

we're going to meet at 10 a.m.

Friday night, we will have two messages

with a dessert fellowship in between the

messages.

And then on Saturday,

we'll have a luncheon in between the messages.

And maybe I can talk Larry into doing a Q and

A.

I don't know if I can do that.

- Probably, well, probably if you feed them.

- Probably if I feed them, that's exactly

right.

Now, I want to say one more thing too about

this book.

And Rusty and I met this man, Ed Lacey,

over 25 years ago.

And when I first heard Brother Ed Lacey preach

over at Foster Road, I was a brand new

Christian

and I was just absolutely blown away

by his power and his clarity

on specifically the gospel.

And the way a lot of you that are watching

probably

at one time or another sat under Brother Ed L

acey's ministry.

And what he had was these interactive work

books

where he would walk through things

like he had one on prayer,

but his magnum opus was Christ-centered

evangelism.

So he was writing a book about really comp

iling all his notes

on Christ-centered evangelism.

And sadly, I think it was 2020 when he died

from COVID

and went to be with the Lord.

Well, he hadn't finished the book,

but his wonderful wife, Diane,

finished compiling his book and put it

together

in this book, The Surpassing Power of the

Gospel.

And as we have been talking about the

necessity

of being able to proclaim the gospel

with clarity, with power,

this is one of the best resources that you can

get

as far as a book outside the Bible

to really put in your toolbox,

a great understanding of the gospel.

I remember about a year before Ed died,

he told me that Paul Washer had called him on

the phone

and he had a group of missionaries

that he was fixing to send in Romania.

And when he called Brother Ed, he said,

"There's only one man I want to come

"and preach to these missionaries

"before I send them over into Romania."

And as you, Ed Lacey, and Ed got on the plane

and went over there and preached to those

missionaries.

And then without even being asked,

and we're gonna show this at the conference,

Paul Washer did a promotional video for this

book.

He just, God, Ms. Diane, left a message,

"Hey, I'd like to help sell this book,"

because it's such a great resource,

because the gospel explained so very clearly.

So the places that you can go to get this book

are on Amazon, you can go to Barnes & Noble,

you can go to edlaceyministries.org.

They're also having an audio book come out in

a few months.

And I talked with Diane Lacey today, Ed's wife

,

and she is sending me 40 books

and we're gonna be selling those at the

conference.

So we would love for you to come.

We've got multiple churches

that come together each year.

This is our fifth year to do it.

If you love sound doctrine, and I've posted

this before,

I'm a little biased, but I really, truly

believe this,

that we have collected at this conference

some of the finest local Bible expositors in

this area.

And so if you love sound doctrine,

if you love expositional preaching,

if you love the doctrines of grace,

if you love singing the great old hymns of the

faith,

we would love to have you come out

to our conference October 24th and 25th at the

fifth.

Here we stand conference.

Well, man, it's been great to have you.

- Absolutely, thank you.

- I think we could talk for another three

hours

on these topics, but I know we can't go that

long.

Thank you so much for being here with us today

.

And we look forward to the Lord's Day.

Look, we're not in competition here between

our churches,

but you could come to Providence at 10.45.

Rusty, what time?

- 2.45.

- 2.45 for now until the building is built,

right?

And Brian, what time?

- 11 a.m.

- 11 a.m. at Salem Baptist Church.

And we look forward to serving in our churches

this Sunday

and preaching the word, the whole counsel of

God.

God bless.

- Good job, man.

Really appreciate it.

- Thank you.